Thinking on Upgrading (Update)

"Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness" (long-voyager-2nd-edition) 02/21/2019 at 07:31 • Filed to: Voyager, rallyvan, Mopar, Engine Swaps

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So as most of you know, the Rally Van ate it’s motor this weekend. So in searching for a good 3.8 to replace mine, I’ve been thinking about installing a newer drivetrain so parts are more accessible. This has me thinking about a 3.6 Pentastar/6-speed combo out of a newer Grand Caravan.

I know it should bolt in with minor work and my axles/etc should work fine, the problem is getting it wired up to work correctly.

Hopefully someone has some insight on this as I think it would be a great match for my van and being still in production, finding parts if needed should be easy.

Mopar burnout for your time:

Update:

After some research it seems the 3.6/6-speed will be next to impossible to get working in the old van. So this has led me to looking for an 01+ 3.8L. This engine is a direct bolt in and a simple timing set swap and throttle body swap and it’s plug and play with my wiring/ecu.

This should net a good performance gain making 53hp/32ft-lbs over my current motor’s stock numbers. It will have far easier parts availability being made through 2012 ( IIRC ) as well. 

fintail > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 02/19/2019 at 10:12

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Unrelated, but up your alley. I kind of like this, well, the dash and the seats at least:

https://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/cto/d/lacey-1990-chrysler-new-yorker/6820256651.html

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > fintail 02/19/2019 at 10:14

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Those interiors are amazing, sooooo comfortable for cruising.

Honestly not a bad price for that.

Future next gen S2000 owner > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 02/19/2019 at 10:14

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I think the easiest way to do the swap would be to swap the cluster as well.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Future next gen S2000 owner 02/19/2019 at 10:16

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I was thinking use the new drivetrain’s ecm/tcm/wiring and graft it into my harness so I could keep all my stuff yet run the new drivetrain.

What would the help be in using the newer cluster?

I’ve done something like this before, but this is a little out of my comfort zone, not gonna lie.

fintail > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 02/19/2019 at 10:19

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It looks very comfortable, and I recall the leather being decent quality, too.

Something like that would almost be tempting as kind of a special interest car, one for a Radwood or something.  I am sure it has always been garaged, no rust worries here either, kind of cool in its own way.

random001 > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 02/19/2019 at 10:19

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LS swap, bro..

Future next gen S2000 owner > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 02/19/2019 at 10:22

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I think the issue you may have is the “language” that the computer/gauges use.

A few people have swapped in a 5.0 Coyote into New Edge Mustangs. They realized they had to swap out the cluster for the older PI or 5.0 motor clusters. Something with the type of signal between a PI and 5.0 Coyote didn’t match up.

This was years ago though when the Coyote first came out. They may have a kit by now. I’ll do some research see if I can find the article I’m thinking about.

i86hotdogs > random001 02/19/2019 at 10:27

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I’d k eep it M opar and Hemi crate it. 5.7 is reasonable, but why not 6.4? 6.2 HC?!?! HELLEPHANT?!?! 

random001 > i86hotdogs 02/19/2019 at 10:31

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But....but that’s not an LSx swap....

cbell04 > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 02/19/2019 at 10:34

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Wish my van I sold was cheaper. Really wanted to sell you it just for that 4.0 swap. 

Wacko > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 02/19/2019 at 10:35

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Time for a HellCat Caravan.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 02/19/2019 at 10:41

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Pentastar would be killer in an older lighter vehicle. I had a customer when I was selling cars, who wanted a Charger but couldn’t afford one. So I showed them a 200 S  that we had, and he was shocked at how quick it was. Then I told him it had the same V6 as the Charger. We did a few hard launches on the back road behind the dealership, and he bought the car. One of only two 200s that I sold. The other was to a guy who wanted an Escape, but couldn’t afford it. He all’s wanted a “nice brown car” and it just happened that we had a Auburn Metallic 200 C with tan interior. 

Chariotoflove > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 02/19/2019 at 10:53

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I missed that. I’m sorry man. That sucks.

I don’t have anything helpful.

kanadanmajava1 > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 02/19/2019 at 10:57

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If you can find a running donor vehicle you can start removing non-essential things from the wiring harness until car starts complaining . A t raction control/ABS unit might be some kind of obstacle .

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 02/19/2019 at 11:05

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I’d be interested in a Pentastar swap.  If the /6 in the D100 ever goes, that’s what I intend on putting in there.

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 02/19/2019 at 11:06

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Do the electronics on the pentastar talk with the gearbox? That may be a tough one to solve...

Future next gen S2000 owner > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 02/19/2019 at 11:09

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Here is the oldest swap I can find.

https://www.stangtv.com/tech-stories/engine/sr-performance-puts-a-2011-5-0-swap-into-a-2001-bullitt/

i86hotdogs > random001 02/19/2019 at 11:28

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You’re not wrong

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 02/19/2019 at 12:00

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I’d be using the whole drivetrain, so it shouldn’t be an issue?

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 02/19/2019 at 12:01

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I’m really leaning on it. Plenty of power, should be insanely reliable carrying a vehicle over 1000lbs lighter than it’s designed for, and parts should be easy to find for years to come.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Chariotoflove 02/19/2019 at 12:02

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I missed that. I’m sorry man.

Slacker.....

random001 > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 02/19/2019 at 12:02

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I think the ECU, and any accessory ECUs would be the issue.  I don’t know these, but the Corvette had an ECU, and a BCU, and another computer in there, which caused all kinds of issues for swaps unless you stayed with an LS, swapped reluctor wheels, etc.  It was work there.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 02/19/2019 at 12:03

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Its a good combo in the new vans, I can only imagine how quick it would be in something over 1000lbs lighter.

Not to mention it should be super reliable carting around far less than it was intended for.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Wacko 02/19/2019 at 12:04

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Go-Fund-Me?

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > cbell04 02/19/2019 at 12:05

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That’s ultimately what I want, but they only made them a couple years in the vans, so I think the parts finding difficulty would still be there.

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 02/19/2019 at 12:07

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Oops, I missed that. Should be fine then I think.

Any fab/cutting required to fit the Pentastar’s gearbox in the van?

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > random001 02/19/2019 at 12:09

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Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > fintail 02/19/2019 at 12:10

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In all honesty the interiors in these was amazing and held up really well.

If I didn’t already have 2 projects I would consider picking something like that up for a cruiser.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 02/19/2019 at 12:12

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There shouldn’t be as they used the 3.3/3.8 and Pentastar all in the same years, so the mounts should be the same. I’ll likely have to modify them to work on the older body, but it shouldn’t be too terrible.

Honestly the wiring to get it all to work is the scariest part about it.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > random001 02/19/2019 at 12:13

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I’ve heard the engine harness is tied to the body harness, so there may be some trickery to pull off to get it all to work.

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 02/19/2019 at 12:22

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Nice! Good luck.

random001 > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 02/19/2019 at 12:27

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lols

RickSanchez:Fury Road Edition aka Junkrat > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 02/19/2019 at 12:57

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I drive a newer Caravan, with that combo, for work. The transmission is awful, it never knows what gear to be in and hunts through gears when trying to accelerate. If it were me I would go with a standalone ECU for the engine/transmission. Newer cars have too much tied into the ECU and you may struggle to keep it out of limp mode when it can’t see the body harness.

I could be wrong though.

Wacko > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 02/19/2019 at 14:28

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go find one in the ditch

arl > fintail 02/19/2019 at 15:39

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I want those seat in my 2019  Jetta.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > RickSanchez:Fury Road Edition aka Junkrat 02/19/2019 at 16:07

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I think a lot of the newer van’s problem is it’s weight. The 3.6L doesn’t make good low end torque, so it has to shift more to cart it’s fat ass around.

I had the same complaint when we drove them, but I really think the issue lies in the weight more than the drivetrain, as I’ve driven the 200/Avenger with the same combo and it didn’t have those issues.

fintail > arl 02/19/2019 at 22:50

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Those seats are probably more comfortable than stock seats in most modern cars.

fintail > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 02/19/2019 at 22:51

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It could be a fun toy. If I had space, I would almost consider something like this, just old and rare enough to be something a little special now.

That being said, I saw 2 Dodge Dynastys in under 10 minutes yesterday, here, where cars age slowly.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > fintail 02/20/2019 at 06:54

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Easily.

WilliamsSW > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 02/21/2019 at 08:49

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Big power gain, much cheaper ( and easier)   than the Pentasta r, what’s not to like?

jimz > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 02/21/2019 at 09:26

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your existing cluster wouldn’t work. the electronics architecture in your van is an ancient CCD bus which is a single-wire, 7k baud comm link between a few modules. Anything Pentastar is going to be CAN at up to 500 kb/s. Plus the cluster acts as a “gateway” between different networks in the vehicle. I don’t know Chrysler’s network topology (I can tell you all about Ford’s) but in general if certain critical modules are missing (and the cluster is a critical module) then other modules will freak out and likely not work.

something prior to ‘07 would be simpler since the vehicles were using the simpler J1850 bus (an intermediate speed single-wire link) but you’d still need the newer vehicles BCM/PCM/Cluster at least.

(it was even worse with my Neon; one of the ways they got the cost down on that car was they integrated most of the BCM functions into the cluster.)